Growing up, I used to collect comic books.  I was pretty hard core about it too.  I started when I lived in Germany and it was the only American thing my family had available for kids, and its a trend I continued until high school.  I eventually stopped because I was spending upwards of $200 a week on comic books.  Seriously, I was addicted.  All the money I had went to owning that shit.  My parents had to orchestrate an intervention to break me of this habit.  I probably have a good $3,000 worth of comics packed away in our basement somewhere.

The funny thing is, the heroes in those comics always had a secret identity.  You could break it down to who they really were, and their super-hero persona.  In fact, many stories often dealt with how these heroes would cope with their secret identities and who, in fact, they really were.  I find it a very similar parallel to where I currently am in my life and my development as a Pick-Up Artist.

There are situations I’ve been in since I’ve been home where I’ve found myself wanting to sarge a girl, but in a way I feel like I either can’t or shouldn’t do it because I’m with my family.  The problem with family is that much of the time, they will not understand why you are doing what you are doing.  At least for me, who comes from a fairly conservative, catholic family, my parents would at the very least be puzzled and at the very worst, shocked, at what I was up to most of the time.  Not only that, but my younger brothers (who’ve never had the problems getting women that I’ve had to face) would be very judgmental about it.  In a way, if I revealed to them this aspect of my life, I’d be putting myself at a disadvantage because I’d be opening myself up to judgment by my family.

Obviously, what they think of me doesn’t really matter.  However, it would affect the interactions I’d have with them in the future, especially if they think I’m not very good at this whole “pick-up” thing.  The best time to reveal this aspect of my life would obviously be with a beautiful fiancee on my arm, but I don’t expect that to happen for a very loooooong time, if ever.

So up to that point, I’m stuck living a double life when it comes to my family and AFC friends.  This community is a saving grace in a way, because I now have a network of guys who I can not only talk about this stuff with, but also who understand where I am coming from.  Its a valuable asset, and one I’m quite grateful for.

I know a lot of guys like Papa and Swinggcat are very open with their families about what they do, but I just don’t feel comfortable telling my mom that I’ve devoted a great deal of my life to learning how to get laid by any girl I want, including 3-somes and strippers and any other variety of girl.  She’d have a fit.  This is the same woman who forbade me to date until I was 16.  Can you imagine letting it slip that I’ve frolicked through Vegas with a group of strippers trying to score some drugs so we could party down in my hotel room?  Yikes.

I’m interested in how people handle this.  I know that if you’re congruent with it, it doesn’t matter, but there’s still that nagging reservation about revealing my secret identity to others.  Its a rather sticky wicket, if you ask me.

Until that time, I guess I’ll just stay locked in the nearest phone booth.

Thundercat

Hey all,

New-kid-guru-on-the-block Harmless has just announced his arrival in Austin Texas on mASF. I know he plans on starting up his seduction business soon and is looking to start teaching workshops in the coming months, which should present a nice alternative to the Tyler/Papa Real Social Dynamics workshops which are going to go up in price soon.

Thundercat

Topic: In Austin Now (1 of 3), Read 159 times
Conf: >> General
From: Harmless reinhen27@yahoo.com
Date: Friday, December 19, 2003 11:50 AM

Yo.

I made it to Austin. Alive. In ONE night. 17 hours. I’m sore, tired and cranky. BUT… It’s time to teach these Austin ho’s who their daddy is. Don’t worry, my pimp hand is WAY strong.

Anyone who wants to come up to Austin to sarge with me, let me know. I should point out that I’m going to be VERY poor for the first month or so, but it’s still on.
–

Harmless
harmless@reenhanced.com

Okay, so one of the perks of living in Los Angeles is that I get to hang out with some of the best of the best of the best that the seduction community has to offer. Los Angeles seems to be the Mecca for Pick-Up Artists, probably because of the constant influx of fresh-off-the-bus poon, mixed with the hippest night scene in the U.S. (shut up New York), and a healthy dose of celebrity elitism, and you got yourself a virtual PUA playground.

One of the PUAs out here is TheOne, who used to be called Maverick, but I guess he decided a name that started with “The” was more memorable. Anyway, some of you may recognize TheOne as a fairly regular instructor at the Real Social Dynamic’s workshop. (Perhaps he changed his name because of all the gay TOP GUN jokes hurled at him by being Tyler’s wing? Who knows.) Regardless, TheOne was one of the first instructors I ever had. It was him and Tyler who took my out my first night in the LA Mystery Method Workshop about 5 months ago (Has it been that long? Dunno. Gotta lay off the drugs).

As far as Game goes, TheOne is far from the best there is, but he’s a pretty solid dude who does get laid (though looking like Sylvester Stallone from “Cobra” doesn’t hurt, I’m sure). So I like the guy enough to agree to have dinner with him when he calls me up a few days ago.

TheOne picks me up from work, and this is the first time I get to see him in his non-peacocking gear, which usually consists of black PVC pants and a form fitting black shirt, along with the occasional leather arm band. Instead, he’s just in sweatpants and a muscle shirt, having just come from the gym (whether he was trying to impress me or not, who knows? =)

So we go to this Hawaiian BBQ place I know of and sit down for a nice dinner. It’s cool hanging out with TheOne because unlike hanging out with someone like Mystery, I do not feel a pressure to sarge. There’s nothing worse than trying to relax and enjoy a meal with the feeling that you should be gaming the waitresses and any female patron in sight, which is often an unfortunate side-effect of hanging with a juggernaught of PUA such as Mystery.

Anyway, we talk about a lot of things. Community gossip, sticking points in our game, financial troubles, work woes, and JFK assassination theories. In a way, it was a real eye opening experience for me because it had been a while since I’d hung out with someone from the community in a strictly “non-sarge” capacity. It was just two dudes chilling in a restaurant enjoying some good food.

The thought struck me how funny it is that at the end of the day, we’re all just a bunch of regular guys. On the internet, it’s so easy to attain “celebrity” or “guru” status just as long as you post prolifically and are able to spell above a kindergarten level. In fact, there are a lot of guys out there who claim to be “seducers” or “pick-up artists”who never fucking leave their computer.

My dinner with TheOne made me realize just how many guys I’ve hung out with from the community. Not only that, but hung out with them enough to see the internet persona go by the wayside and get a sense of the real people underneath. And the truth is, once you get down to it, someone like Mystery, Style, Tyler Durden, Papa, TheOne, Swinggcat, and anyone else out there you read about (I’m including me in this) is pretty much just like every other guy out there.

This includes you, dear reader.

In fact, I get a lot of emails from guys saying how amazing I am and asking when/if I’ll ever do another workshop. I find it odd how that works, because by any stretch of the imagination, I am NOT as good as some of these other guys when it comes to PUA, though I am better than others. But to many of us in the community, PUA is a very small part of our lives. Indeed, I have many other aspects of my life that I pursue, but PUA is a small (albeit important) part of my overall existence.

My point here is this: Whether you are an AFC, RAFC, BAFC, or any other ridiculous acronym, chances are you are on par with most of the guys you read about.

What does this mean?

Simple. If you guys are no different than us, then that means that you can easily be doing what we’re doing, which is going out and learning to pick-up girls.

Obviously, this is easier said than done. Lots of guys are still suffering in this area, and in a way, that’s where people like TheOne and I stand out. We have been able to overcome our fears and insecurities to the point where we are able to engage this area of our life with vigor and persistence most men can only dream of.

So in the coming days, weeks, months, or however long it takes, I’m going to be posting some stuff on how to help your inner game and how to start off approaching women. I’ll give some examples, some theory, and maybe even a few homework assignments for you truly committed out there. Hopefully I’ll even receive a few success stories to post up on the Lair.

In short, if I can do it, and TheOne can do it, you certainly can too.

Then you can open your own workshop and give Tyler a run for his money. =)

Thundercat

Okay, so back at the DYD seminar in Chicago, I was tapped to be a guest instructor at the Papa/TD/Orion workshop. It was the first time I had ever really gone out instructing people in a “professional” capacity. I mean, I’ve been out bootcamping some local guys on Sunset here in LA, but this was a workshop people were paying for, so I felt a certain pressure to do my best with helping the students to learn.

Anyway, I was referred to a review of the workshop one of the student’s put up on ASF. The review is pretty good and fairly accurate from what I remember, even if the guy’s observations about the instructors are a bit off.

Anyway, here’s what he writes about me:

“I meet up with Thundercat. Very cool dude. He says “Go approach that set. Say ‘female opinion: who lies more, men or women?’, then come back.” I do just that, chat the 3-set up for a few minutes more, then return to him for more assignments. He says “Go tell that girl on the dancefloor ‘Settle down! you’re going to make the other girls jealous!’” I do. Girl responds very well. Then she gives me a salute and yes “Yes, Sir!” She’s smiling big and into it. I go back for more assignments. Thundercat says go open 3 more sets with the opinion opener. I open two more sets. One girl avoided me, as she was ordering a drink. I return, tell Thundercat what happened. He asks how I feel. I said I hate being blown out, but that I feel fine and it’s not going to prevent me from approaching more.” No big deal he says. If it doesn’t work well, just say “nice meeting you” to leave the door open for future sarges with her.

I really wish we had time to give a background of ourselves at the lecture, but there wasn’t time in the mini-workshop. I think all the instructors think all the students are AFCs. I wish I had told Thundercat about my experience, as I was hanging in sets well, but I figured, Hell, I’m here to learn what these guys have to teach, so I want to use their openers, their techniques. I was hoping for more advanced assignments from him like “go get a kiss from that girl within 5 minutes!” That would have been cool, but he was off working with other students by then.”

LOL. Go kiss a girl in 5 minutes! Most of these guys can’t even TALK to women, let alone kiss them. But this dude definitely stood out as someone who was comfortable in a club scene. I do remember him being a bit more upset about getting blown out than he made it out to be. He came up stuttering and looking a bit flustered, so I pulled him to the side and calmed him down. If his writing style says anything about him, its that he could be a real presence on ASF if he ups his field outtings. You can read the whole thread here:

http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/read?118549,24

I find it a fascinating read because it came from a truly neutral source. This was a dude who didn’t know any of us, least of all me, yet he gave me good reviews on my teaching style. I guess there’s a twinge of pride there, knowing I help someone out. Though Chicago for me sucked. One thing that became painfully obvious was that if I’m teaching other guys how to pick-up, I can’t do any pick-ups myself. It was terrible, and its for that reason why I will probably never teach at an actual in-field workshop again. It was a good experience, I’m glad I did it, but its too much work not to get paid for.

I know Harmless has talked about bringing me in as a guest speaker/instructor when he starts his workshops, but I’m on the fence about doing it right now. We’ll have to wait and see I suppose. It depends on how my finances are doing at the time.

Thundercat

Okay, so the debate has been raging for a while now over who is the best PUA (Pick-Up Artist) out there. Obviously, a lot of egos are involved in this statement, and everyone has their own opinions about who the best really is. In fact, its so subjective, that I don’t really think there will ever be a clear and honest answer on the subject. Its like asking who the best warrior or soldier is in a war. But the fact of the matter remains, no one can ever ALWAYS be the best. They’re always going to have their off days — be a little bit slow, a little bit late, a little bit unprepared or caught off guard. But that doesn’t stop some people from categorizing the people in our little community as “The Best.” So I’ve decided to throw my hat in the ring and rate the top 10 PUAs operating out there.

However, only the people I have met personally are eligible for my list. There could very well be many great PUAs out there that beat these guys out, but I have not met them and cannot verify their skills personally, so they are off my list for now, though I will mention a few afterwards who I think are worthy of it. Also, my rankings are not based on sheer skill alone, rather, they are based on consistency, and what I have seen as far as how often they are practicing what they preach. So keep that in mind as we go through this.

Thundercat’s Top 10 Pick-Up Artist

1. Style: Style is definitely, hands down, bar none, the best operating in the game today. This guy is probably the most evil, sneaky, manipulative bastard I have ever seen in operation. The thing is, this guy comes in totally under the radar, and that is why he is so dangerous. His subtlety is so amazing, that before you know it, you are qualifying yourself to him and he has you right where he wants you. And the thing is, he does it with both girls AND guys. No one is safe. To give you an idea of how incredible Style is, he’s practically invented most of the techniques a lot of the top guys, like Mystery and Tyler Durden, are using and teaching. He is practically Machiavellian in nature, and is someone I both admire and fear. I should also point out that I have a special, non-gay, place in my heart for this man, because it was with his help that I broke down my barrier with approaching women, so I owe a lot of my current game and success to Style, which is another reason why I rate him #1.

2. Swinggcat: Swinggcat comes in at a close second, and would in fact probably be number one if it weren’t for the fact that that he is a better looking guy than Style. Swinggcat is a pretty hip looking (think a shorter version of Vince Vaughn in Swingers and you get a rough idea of what Swinggcat looks like), whereas Style is a skinny, bald, jewish guy. Swinggcat is just as evil, sneaky, and manipulative, but considering what Style has to overcome in the looks department, that puts his game above Swingg’s. That said, I have seen Swinggcat in action on numerous occasions and am amazed at a lot of his game. The way he is able to process and sum up the information girls give him and turn their frame around is truly a sight to see. Not only that, he is so intuative, he can make up cold readings on the fly and be almost 100% accurate, which is fuckin’ creepy. His book only scratches the surface of his vast knowledge, and I think we’ll be getting a lot of good (and evil) stuff from his upcoming newsletters.

3. Zan: Zan is not a name that is very well known in the community, but having met the guy and seen him in action, I am convinced he is one of the top dudes out there when it comes to picking up chicks. In fact, I’d have even placed him at number 1 if it wasn’t for the fact that this guy is a “natural” seducer, and therefore what he does cannot be taught to others. But in accordance with the sheer skill of his game, he lays all others flat on their back. The thing is, the guy looks like a male model. He’s 40 years old, but looks like he’s 20. He actually USED to be a model, in fact, back in France in the 80′s I think, and his girlfriend was Monica Bellucci of the Matrix fame (hey, don’t hate the player, hate the game =). Currently, the guy has between 6 and 9 hot ass girlfriends who ALL know about each other, and apparently he enjoys many 3-somes and fuck buddies to boot. Not only that, but Zan has one of the most amazing philosophies on life I have ever heard. He spends his time moving towards beauty and away from things that are not beautiful. I hung out with the guy for only 3 days, but I am secure enough in my masculinity to say that if I was a chick, I’d have been all over him. Probably the coolest guy in the community. He was on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, and if David DeAngelo ever decides to sell the audio to that thing, you’ll get a real treat hearing Zan speak about inner game. Simply amazing.

4. Maddash: Maddash, like Zan, is also a successful, good looking, older guy. He’s a big proponant of the “No Game” game, which is pretty much emulating the behaviors of “naturals,” such as Zan, and because of that, Maddash’s game comes off as very subtle and natural. When I saw him in action I was very impressed. It seems like he gets a new girl every night. The thing about Maddash is that his life is not ruled by PUA, he is very much into business and athletics as well. Pick-up is just a small factor of his life, but one he strives to perfect — and boy, does he do a good job at it.

5. Craig: Craig probably deserves to be higher on the list, but unfortuneately, I think the four people above him beat him as far as technique goes. That said, Craig is VERY good. He is the king of the short-set method. This is basically where you approach a set of women, say something funny/amusing, then move onto the next set and repeat. Its a very good way of being social and works great in bar scenes. Its also good for creating social proof. Craig is also a very funny guy, and his dancing skills help attract attention from others (in a good way, mind you). The quality of women Craig gets is quite high. I have yet to see him with a girl I would rank lower than a 9 on the looks scale. Not only that, but he seems to get them pretty consistantly. However, the fact that he comes off as a good looking frat guy, the fact that he has appeared on Elimidate, and the fact that he lives on a beach, are all contributing factors to his success — but that does not take away from the fact that he is very skilled. He is also one of the few PUAs I’ve seen that can do all his shit effectively while drunk. He was also on stage at the Chicago DYD seminar, so you may hear stuff from him fairly soon.

6. Mystery: Okay, I know Mystery is gonna be pissed that I rank him so low (or not. He probably doesn’t give a shit what I think. Can ya blame him?), but in my opinion, for as good as Mystery is, the other 5 guys are better. The thing about Mystery is that he’s incredibly good at raising his value in other’s eyes. I’ve seen him pull off some amazing instances of social proof with his magic tricks, and he is incredibly entertaining, funny, and exciting. Its easy to get caught up in Mystery’s spell. That said, the reason I rate him #6 is because I do not feel his long game is very good. I always get the sense that Mystery has a hard time genuinely connecting with people, and this effects his long term relationships. It seems like he can be very insecure at times and needs constant validation from others, which leads to a lot of mind games that get him his validation, but at the same time succeeds in pushing people away from him. Whether or not this is intentional, I don’t know, but it happens. He also seems to care more about adjusting his game to suit the girl than making the girl adjust to his game, which I think ends up hurting his pick-up in the long run because it is not really congruent with who he is and how he presents himself long term. In fact, if you hang out with Mystery long enough, you get the sense that everything he talks to you about is a pattern, and he always ends up bringing the conversation back to his favorite topic, which is, of course, himself. And that is the reason I put him at #6.

7. Tyler Durden: Tyler is one of the big “up and comers” in the community. His posts made him a legend on ASF, and then once he teamed up with Papa and started doing workshops, his stock only rose. For a while, there was speculation as to whether or not TD was all talk, but he proved to everybody that he was legit in the Vegas Mystery Method workshop where he not only got laid, but got Style and Mystery laid as well. I have seen Tyler at work in the field, and he is impressive. He is a genuinely funny and engaging guy with lots of interesting stuff to talk about. His posts are some of the most interesting to read in the community as well, and he backs up his teachings with lots of field experience. However, like Mystery, I get the sense that TD has problems in his long game. When he picks chicks up, he does so from the frame where he makes the girls feel like “bad girls” or “sluts.” This works good for party girls and good girls alike, but on day two when the frame wears off, the girls associate that feeling with him and then flake, because feeling bad and slutty might be exciting for a night, but long term it is not a good feeling. TD also comes off as very gay. This is not a bad thing per say, but he has adopted the “hot chick” frame so congruently, that I think when girls sleep with him, its almost incongruent with who they thought he was. I could, of course, be totally wrong in this assessment since I haven’t hung out and sarged with Tyler as much as I’d like, but I’m going off of what I have noticed.

8. Primoman: Primoman is a dude that is no longer an active member of the community, but he is still a pick-up artist in every sense of the word. Primoman is known as the “King of the Ugs.” He is a dude who I’ve yet to see without a girl on his arm. Allbeit, that girl is usually ugly, or fat, or a combination of the two, but nonetheless, it is a girl. Primoman is not so much about quality as he is about QUANTITY. He probably lays more girls than any other guy in the community, but he is also not too picky with his prospects. Regardless, he gets laid a LOT! And that’s what it all comes down to in the end. His game is very Juggler in nature. In fact, he is quite AFC in his approach, but he is just so congruent with who he is and gently persistent in his sarge, that he eventually wins the girl over. Lately he’s been working his way up the “looks” scale as far as his girls go, so he may be giving Style a run for his money some day.

9. Sickboy: Sickboy is a protogee of Tyler and Papa. He’s a New Yorker and is best known for his appearance in the movie Zoolander as one of the male models in the movie. Yes, that’s right, the guy looks like a male model. But despite this, he is incredibly down to earth and has absolutely no ego about himself. He’s a very easy guy to talk to and a good friend. His game is also quite solid, though I do think it’s helped greatly by his looks. I think his frames aren’t as strong as they could be, but he definitely has the subtleties of PUA down pat. He recently spoke to the NYC lair and that’s a great read if you can find the transcripts somewhere. He’s a guy to look out for.

10. Harmless: Harmless is not what you would expect from a PUA. He’s pretty prolific on ASF, and seems to know his shit. The thing is, the guy comes off very much as his name describes him — Harmless. He’s a pretty average looking guy who seems very unassuming at first. But then you see the guy in action, and he’s very good. I think he comes across much like Mystery and TD, where he raises his value in the girl’s eyes by being entertaining and engaging. I know I enjoy talking to the guy, if that’s any indication. I haven’t seen enough of his game in action to critique it any further, but I do know he’s going to start teaching workshops soon, so his game’s gotta be pretty high. Regardless, he’s one to keep an eye on.

HONORABLE MENTIONS

There are a number of other people out there who probably deserve to be on this list, but like I said before, I have not had a chance to really see them in action. But here are a few who I think deserve a mention.

Bad Boy — Apparently this guy is amazing. I know TD gets a lot of his AMOG tactics from Bad Boy. He’s a croatian pick-up artist who was injured in the Bosnian war, which makes his game so much more incredible considering he was almost killed and still suffers the effects from that somewhat. Apparently the guy is very fearless and straight-forward agressive with women. In fact, some would descibe his game as all cocky and no funny, which is probably why its so effective. Not only that, but he is supposed to be incredibly congruent. I know he’s currently fucking Miss Croatia and using her as a pawn to pull other women for threesomes if that tells you anything about his game.

Toecutter – I don’t know the guy personally and all I have to go off of are his posts on ASF and Mystery’s Lounge, but this guy seems to have it going on. I know TD studdied his archive like the dead sea scrolls, and his posts convey a very congruent attitude. I’m interested in seeing him in action, and if I’m ever in Canada I’ll see if I can’t hook up with him.

MTLPUA — Don’t know much about him, but I hear he’s really good.

David X — I know Clifford had good things to say about him.

Chet – The Chetinator! I got to see him speak in Chicago. Supposedly he’s god-like with women, but I have yet to see him in action and can’t say for sure.

Adam – The “natural.” Look to see great things from this guy in the future!

Masterclass — The guy is currently juggling 4 girls right now. He’s also an incredibly sneaky speed seducer who is moving more into the cocky/funny stuff and having great success. Right now, I think his game could be up there with the best there is if he got past his fear of approaching.

Rick H. — The legend. I have not hung out with the guy yet, but I’m sure when I do, it’ll be veeeeeeery interesting. =)

Ross Jeffries — I’ve hung out with Ross on a few occasions now and have only sarged with him once. From what I saw, I liked, but have not done enough field work with him to accurately rate the guy. I know Papa speaks highly of him, and he’s been out in the field with him more than I have.

Papa – I go out with Papa all the time, so I’m a bit biased when it comes to his skill level. He teaches at all of TD and Mystery’s workshops as well, and his field reports are always worth a read. He’s also single-handedly bringing this community together, so he has to be respected for that at the very least. The reason I didn’t put him in the top 10 was because much of his material is from Style and Tyler. I think in order to be in the top 10, a PUA needs to be developing his own style. One thing I will say about Papa is that he is incredibly good with creating strong frames.

Alphamale – This guy is incredibly impressive. Most of his game is based on using pivots to pull girls for him. I haven’t hung out with the guy enough to get an idea of how good he is, but from what I have seen, his game is awesome.

Well, there ya go, my Top 10. Hopefully one day I’ll make my list, but I doubt it! I’m much too hard on myself, lol.

That’s why they call me…

Thundercat