The Top 10 Pick Up Artists Of 2007
Okay - sorry this took so long to get up. I usually like to get the Top 10 list out on New Years Eve, but the holidays, travel, and spotty internet connections kept me from doing so.
Also, just finding the time to sit down and writing everything out was very time consuming and hard to do for some reason this year. I really thought long and hard about who deserved to go where in the list, but I think this is the best ranking I’ve done yet.
Again, I just want to remind everyone - the Top 10 list isn’t just based on pure pick up skill alone. I weigh a lot of different factors into who I believe is the top PUAs out there.
I also planned to have a big lead up to the unveiling of the Top 10 this year, but since I got so sidetracked with my family and other things, I didn’t have the time to write it out, so I’ll try and get that out later this month so you guys can see real video and pictures of some of the top 10 in action.
Until then, here are your Top 10 Pick Up Artists of 2007.
1. Mystery
Yes my friends, it has finally happened. I am ranking Mystery as the official #1 Pick Up Artist of 2007!
It has surprised many people that Mystery has yet to be ranked at number 1 in all the years I’ve been doing the list. After all, Mystery does like to proclaim himself as the best ever, and anyone who’s ever met the man would be hard pressed to deny his sheer skill as a pua.
However, in my book, being a top pua is more than just about sheer raw talent. Why is this?
Because there are factors out there that play a part in success that can’t be controlled. Factors such as how good looking you are, how rich you are, how famous you are, etc. which can make it easy for you to pick up women.
I would never rate a rock star or movie/TV actor as a Pick Up Artist, because they have a lot of status factors going for them, as well as the factors I just listed above.
To me, a Top Pick Up Artist is about skill, but it’s also about being able to teach what he knows to others, to innovate new and interesting ways of meeting and dating women, to make women feel good about being picked up, and about crafting a lifestyle that can overcome obstacles for success with women, and most of all - contribution to the community at large.
It’s true Mystery has always been at the forefront of the pickup world. He pioneered the first concrete pick-up method (Mystery Method), he created a lot of the lingo we use, he started the peacocking phenomenon, he lead the "lifestyle" charge that brought about the project hollywood days…
In short, there was a lot about Mystery that was good reason to rank him as number one since I started the list.
However, there was always something that held me back from giving him the top spot. It wasn’t that I didn’t like Mystery or didn’t think him worthy. In fact, I’m one of the guy’s biggest fans. I always root for Mystery to succeed, because I like the guy a great deal.
But for years, I felt Mystery had become stagnant. He had gotten most of his innovations from concepts Style had come up with, that helped him to refine his model and make it more effective. He had also withdrawn from teaching a great deal, and most of his game was based on wowing girls in clubs with his magic tricks, which I felt was a little too gimmicky.
It was for those reasons why I ranked Style as number one for so long over Mystery (a source of much frustration and animosity from Mystery, I can assure you!).
However, this year is different.
2007 saw a great deal of things from Mystery. He published a book that you can find in bookstores across America about his method. He began personally teaching workshops again. He released a massive new course of original content. He pioneered a new lifestyle based on the one he lost with Project Hollywood, with Project Miami and now he’s back in Los Angeles.
But the biggest achievement for Mystery in 2007 was his television show The Pick Up Artist on VH1. It was quite an achievement to get that show on the air, and bring the pickup community into the mainstream.
Mystery showcased his talents as a teacher and a seducer on that show, and did it in a way that was very positive for the community at large. Though the show had its problems, Mystery didn’t.
And with that show, Mystery has crafted a new and exciting lifestyle based around the celebrity that it garnered. It’s almost as if he’s transcended being a pick-up artist and moved into celebrity territory.
But despite all this, Mystery is still as big of a pioneer as he’s always been in the pick up community, and that is why I am ranking Mystery as the #1 PUA of 2007. It’s been a long time in coming, and he deserves it.
2. Style
So Neil Strauss was dethroned in 2007, but that doesn’t mean he’s any less awesome than he ever has been in the PUA arena. In fact, he really gave Mystery a run for his money this year.
2007 Saw Neil release two new pick-up books, a bundle called the Rules Of The Game. It also saw the development of the Stylelife Academy, which is one of the best pick up and seduction sites on the internet in my opinion (even if it is a bit pricey to be a member of.) Neil has really been refining his techniques and methods to teach people in Stylelife how to become honest to god pick up artists, and people have been loving his teachings.
And though Neil has been absent from the mainstream media, that hasn’t stopped him from creating his own videos with former celebrities in an effort to get the word out about his Stylelife mission. I have no doubt that these videos will do a lot to bring new people into the community.
On top of everything else, Neil has consistently been trying to perfect his "relationship" game, which is like the PUA equivalent of the 9th circle of jedi masterdom. Few PUAs ever focus on relationships with the women they pick up, but Neil has been working hard to master this high-end level of game. I’ve seen some of the girls he’s been in relationships with in 2007, and all I can say is WOW. Not only have they been gorgeous, but they’ve also been incredibly fascinating women.
Though Mystery is now number one, I don’t take anything away from Neil (except maybe his strange business partnership with Ross Jeffries). He’s consistently one of the best pickup artists AND teachers out there.
3. AFC Adam Lyons
Okay, some of you have probably never heard of this guy before… but this is what makes the Top 10 list worth reading!
AFCAdam is a new face in the PUA scene, and let me tell you - I get the same feeling from this guy that I got from Neil Strauss when I first met him.
I’m convinced that AFCAdam is going to be the next big star in the pickup community.
This guy’s game is RADICALLY different from anyone elses I’ve seen, which is incredibly refreshing to think that there’s still innovation out there not based on the Mystery Method model.
Adam is a London-based pickup artist and the head of the London Lair. His entire game is based around Social Proof. He doesn’t use any routines or openers or anything like that. In fact, his approach is very "AFC" like, hense the nick-name.
Adam likes to brag that is game all about having "no game." He creates and cultivates a lifestyle that attracts women to him like magnets.
And the fascinating thing is that he’s not rich, or famous. He’s also pretty average looking, so his success isn’t based around being good looking either.
The women of his that I’ve seen are also of the quality that I’ve seen Mystery and Style get - which is to say the girls are GORGEOUS.
Talking with Adam feels like you’re getting a crash course in Pick-Up from an entirely different perspective. He’s funny, interesting, and more than willing to share his techniques with anyone who’s interested in them.
Not only that, but Adam also runs the London Lair, and strives to teach others how to be as successful as he is. He regularly runs his own workshops, and I believe he just released his first ebook.
Long Story Short: AFCAdam is the newest, most exciting talent in the pick-up world I’ve come across in a long, long time, and I have a feeling 2008 might be his year to reach #1 status. We’ll have to see.
4. Swinggcat
Another staple in the top 10 this year drops to number four. In terms of raw talent, Swinggcat is one of the best pickup artists I know, though 2007 didn’t see much from the Cat.
He did release a new Mastery course with your typical brilliant Swinggcat techniques and psychology, and he’s still one of the most active PUAs I know, going out almost every night and pioneering new techniques and methods he’s developing for himself.
However, Swinggcat is also very withdrawn from the seduction community at the moment, which is one of the reasons I’ve ranked him lower this year than I have in the past.
5. Brad P
Here’s a new face on the Top 10 - Brad P.
I had heard a great deal of buzz about Brad P before I met the guy. I had heard about his new and interesting style of pick-up, as well has his famous "Shocker" opener, where he basically insults the girl right off the bat and yet still gets her.
Being the community skeptic I am, I took everything I heard about Brad with a grain of salt. In fact, when I first met Brad, I felt he was another Mystery clone - a poor man’s Mystery, if you will.
Brad’s tall, just like Mystery, and peacocks in a way very similar to Mystery’s style.
But I came to learn Brad P is not Mystery.
In fact, Brad P is one of the few unique pick up artists I got to meet in 2007. And trust me - that’s a good thing.
Though his methods do have some things in common with Mystery’s, most of Brad’s material and teachings are all original, and he has his own personal take on certain things.
Brad is also an incredibly fun and charming guy, with none of the hubris that some of the other PUAs I know have. In fact, he’s very chill, the kind of guy you can hang out with and have a good time.
Brad is also very willing to teach his methods to others. He runs regular workshops, is constantly creating new products, and isn’t afraid to help out guys who need it.
In fact, Brad is one of those rare guys who developed his own system, began to teach it, and THEN discovered there was an entire seduction community out there - the exact opposite of what you usually see.
Brad P. is definitely one of my favorite new PUAs out there, and I hope to see a lot of good things from him in 2008.
6. Mehow
Up from number 10 last year, this year I rank Mehow at number six. Last year there was too much buzz around the guy to ignore him for the top 10 list, and this year I finally got to meet and hang out with the guy.
Mehow is a bit of a surprise because he’s not what you would expect your typical Pick Up Artist to be like. He’s average to below average in looks, he’s got bleach-blond hair, he’s scrawny, and his voice sounds kind-of gay.
Yet this guys is fearless and can approach like nobody’s business. And, he gets results.
2007 saw a lot from Mehow. He released his first product called Get The Girl, and then followed it up with In-Field Exposed, a video series of hidden camera approaches done in live bars and clubs.
There are a few criticisms of Mehow that can’t be ignored in this ranking. The biggest of which is that his entire system is based on Mystery Method - though there are differences, and Mehow does bring his own unique twists to the table. But it’s nothing like the original stuff I’m seeing from people like Brad P and AFCAdam.
Another criticism I’ve heard is about the techniques Mehow employs in his club game, which seems to do with buying expensive bottle service and acting gay a lot.
Also, due to his meteoric rise in the community and aggressive marketing and PR appearances, some argue that Mehow is more interested in getting rich and famous than he is in helping other guys succeed with women.
However, despite these criticisms, Mehow is still an exciting new talent to keep an eye on. I personally believe Mehow’s heart is in the right place, and that he’s going to bring a lot of new and exciting ideas to the community in 2008.
7. Zan
What Top 10 list would be complete without the true seducer - Zan.
I’ve gotten to hang out and speak with Zan a few times this year, and you know what? He never ceases to amaze me. Zan is one of the most naturally gifted seducers out there, and he’s always got some type of new hot babe on his arm when I meet with him.
Zan is such a good seducer AND teacher, that a filmmaker who took one of Zan’s classes actually CAST him to play himself in a movie he was directing. And being on a movie set didn’t deter Zan from picking up all the hot extras sitting around either.
Also - need I remind anybody that Zan is the guy who had 6 girlfriends who all knew about each other and would regularly engage in threesomes with him? That alone deserves a permanent spot on the Top 10 in my book.
8. Stephen Nash
Like Zan, Stephen from Cutting Edge Image Consulting is a naturally gifted seducer. He has interesting methods and techniques, and his focus is on building strong, beneficial relationships with women as opposed to straight-up pickups (though Stephen is no stranger to being a hard-core pickup artist, let me tell you.)
It’s always a pleasure for me to sit down and talk with Stephen because like Zan, he always has such a great attitude and outlook on life and love, that it’s hard not to be inspired by him.
9. Matador
Number 9 on the list this year is Matador. I got to meet Matador a few times this year, enough to get a good sense of him as a pick up artist.
Of course, everyone got to see him on the VH1 show, but what we did see was very little of his in-field prowess. Every time I’ve hung out with Matador, I’ve been impressed with how well he controls the interactions he’s in. He seems very skilled in being the dominant figure in any set.
However, though Matador has tried to distinguish himself from Mystery, he is still just doing Mystery Method, and it’s hard to see where any innovations of his come into play.
But needless to say, there is some raw talent there, and I’ll be interested in seeing where Matador goes in 2008.
10. Johnny Soporno
Rounding out the Top 10 this year is yet ANOTHER newcomer, Johnny Soporno.
I’d heard of Johnny long before I met the guy, since good friends of mine - people who’s opinions I trust - couldn’t say enough good things about the man.
Supposedly, Johnny was a guy who used to be in the porn business, and had developed a way to successfully manage multiple female partners in long-term situations.
When I met the guy, I found his name to be appropriate. The guy does look like Tony Soprano - he’s overweight, older, and balding. A stark contrast to the super-hot chick he had on his arm.
Johnny is also very soft-spoken and sweet. A big contrast to how he looks. But I can see why so many people are taken with him. His philosophy on life and love and dating and seduction are incredible.
I might have ranked Johnny higher if I had a chance to spend more time with him and see how his system really works, but it seems like Johnny has the lifestyle and relationship aspects of his game down better than anyone else out there.
Special Mentions
Mystery Method
2007 saw Mystery leave his own company Mystery Method to start the competing company Venusian Arts. And you’ll notice a lack of Mystery Method instructors on the Top 10 list this year.
I just want to point out that this is simply because I did not have a chance to hang out with or observe any Mystery Method people other than Nick Savoy in 2007.
I have met MM’s top instructor Sinn, and think he’s very skilled, but I have yet to see him in field.
It’s for these reasons I didn’t include any in 2007’s top 10 list, not because they don’t deserve to be there. I still feel Mystery Method is one of the best workshop companies out there, and they have a lot of good products as well. Losing Mystery was a big (and unexpected) setback for them, but as an organization, I still feel they have a lot of value to deliver the community.
I look forward to seeing them in action this year.
Badboy
Finally, after years and years, I got to meet he king of Croation pick up and direct game. I liked Badboy a great deal and would have liked to include him in this years list, but have yet to see him in field. Maybe next year.
Real Social Dynamics
One of the biggest complaints I get from people about the Top 10 list is how it excludes the Real Social Dynamics crew. As you know, RSD and I (more specifically, Tyler Durden, Papa, and I) have some bad blood there between us. This really does make me less interested in what they do since I don’t believe they do anything good. In my book, they are still rip-offs of Mystery Method, and they still have sociopathic tendancies that are not healthy for the people involved in that organization to be a part of.
However, that’s not to say they may have changed the way they do things. I don’t know. The last contact I had with these guys was a letter from their lawyer. They have been so shut off from the community, and from me personally, it’s hard to judge where their skill level lies.
Even if they didn’t trust me to judge Tyler fairly, I have no idea the skill level of any of their instructors. Maybe some of them deserve to be in the Top 10. I just don’t know.
Grungey
A newcomer to the scene, Grungey (or Oliver, depending on how you know him) has been very aggressive in teaching his "Day Game" methods through his Captivate To Connect business. I got to meet Oliver briefly, and I think the guy has some good stuff, but again, I didn’t get to see him in action enough to say with any certainty he belonged on the Top 10 list. But you know what? He just might have the skills to get there someday. I’ll be keeping my eye on him.
Well, that sums it up for this year’s Top 10. I told you there’d be some surprizes this year! Leave your feedback in the comments section.
Awesome list Thundercat! Ive sent you my emails so that I can claim my Amazon gift card. Let me know please, and thanks for the opportunity! You can write to me from this link.
Jeremiah
Whoops, I do see your email, thanks!
Jeremiah
Great list Thundercat. I have some opposing views, if anyone’s interested in reading them below:
http://www.seduction-chronicles.net/2008/01/08/my-opinion-on-thundercats-top-10-pickup-artists-of-2007/
D
Here’s the LINK:
My Opinion
always entertaining list, but you’re too biased for it to be very accurate. it’s like some mutual jerk off society, putting your buddies/business partners at the top. i do look forward to checking out the new guys though!
Chancellor,
I don’t let any business interest color my views on who the top 10 should be. This accusation might stem from the fact I worked with Neil on the Annihilation Method, but you gotta remember, I ranked him as #1 for TWO YEARS before I ever worked with the guy. I wanted to work with him for the simple reason I felt he was (and still is) one of the best.
I’m friends with some of these guys because I respect them and like them, and part of me actually MEETING people on this list is to get to know them, so you can’t help but become friends with them.
Yeah, it’s not an entirely objective list, at the end of the day it’s all my opinion. However I think it’s a fair one based on everything I’ve seen and experienced from these guys over the past year.
And definitely check out the new guys. AFCAdam, Brad P, and Johnny Soporno are three extremely exciting new talents.
Thundercat
Interesting list… i must check out this AFC Adam guy… he’s got me intrigued.
i really dig the list… i have seen 7 of the guys on this list in person and in field and its impressive. AFC Adam is the best one on there and he deserves to be behind mystery and style, the 2 most well-known guys. his social proof theories are sick. check them out.
good list, thundercat.
Hey bro, I’m glad to see AFC Adam Lyons on the list!!!!
When Vince and I were inviting speakers to the PUA Summit this year we wanted the well known ones, but we also wanted to bring in some talent that people havn’t had a chance to see yet.
After I met David Wygant in person, I knew I had to have him come. And when John Farrar the producer for UK’s Rules of Seduction contacted me, and figured I’d take a chance by invisitng Adam Lyons…and I’m glad I did!
I figured Mehow would be farther up. No one has had the balls to do what he did with the whole Infield Insider deal. Some no names are on the list so they better live up to your hype thundy.
Hey Thundercat,
I’ve been hearing about this guy vin dicarlo lately. I heard he style is 100% natural. Also, I’ve never read a bad review, they are all great. We can what if this to death as to why he didn’t make the list. But do you know him? If so, what is your opinion of him?
AFC Adam basically sounds like Brent of absolute power dating only Brent started the whole “no game” thing long before this dude was even thinking about girls. And give me a break, RSD has released tremendous products this year including The Jeffy Show and Transformations. RSD sucked in the past, but hardly none of their new material focuses on Mystery’s shitty routine-based game. They now focus more on core development. Get over your lame resentment towards Tyler. I’m happy to see the community moving towards a more natural game without lame routines and stupid outfits. Mystery and Style are stuck in the past. Luckily, I saw the light along time ago and got out of this mindset that I have to pursue women, use routines, avoid death topics such as “How’s everything tonight?”, and so on. Wake me up when Thundercat isn’t sucking Mystery’s cock for once. Until then, your opinion is bullshit. Screw this blog. It used to be good; however, I actually know how to pick up women now without being a complete robotic jackass like Mystery. Peace. Wish all of you the best…especially those still believing the MM to be the Holy Grail of pick-up.
Vin DiCarlo - I used to know him as Woodhaven on the boards and always liked his writings. I think he’s the real deal. But I have yet to meet, talk, or email with the guy, so I can’t speak as to where he would place on the list. Maybe I’ll finally get to meet him in 2008. But my gut tells me he’s one of the good guys.
As to the other poster about Brent vs. AFCAdam, I can tell you that AFCAdam has a VERY different style of pickup than Brent does. The stuff Adam teaches is really high-caliber social proof game, using pivots and social proof in a way I’ve never seen before. So yes, those guys are very different.
As for RSD - I said I’d be happy to try and rank them, but they have made it clear they prefer to isolate themselves from others who would be critical of them, and I’m in no rush to hang out with Papa or Tyler again. But I will say I used to enjoy Jlaix’s stuff immensely, until he went psycho on me for no apparent reason other than the fact he was brainwashed by Tyler.
So if you don’t like the blog anymore, then please, by all means, stop posting here.
Thundercat
Worst list to date. How could you have a top 10 and not include Juggler on the list.
Because Juggler isn’t worth mentioning. He’s useless without Christian Hudson… (Master The Vibe)
AFC Adam saying he has no game is just modesty. He has absolutely sick game, always gets instant attraction just from his charisma. However, he has so much social proof when he goes out (accompanied by 50+ hotties) that he doesn’t have to use game.
Also - I’ve never met Juggler, so I can’t speak to his abilities.
Thundercat
Thundercat, first off thanks for the effort to write this stuff together. It is a very entertaining read every year.
I have also heard good things about Adam Lyons, I’ll check him out for sure.
A few things though:
I think Sinn (and his wing CJ) top nearly everyone of the list in terms of pick up skills. I understand you haven’t ranked them if you didn’t hang up with him. But still, I think Sinn’s pick up abilities are way above those of Style. I can’t say whether he is better than Mystery or not (for the most part, because Mystery plays “hot” game or “celebrity” game). But still, Sinn should have been ranked very high.
As for RSD. It is understandable to me that you didn’t rank them. Also, I agree with some of the criticism against RSD. But STILL, they have released a lot of good new original content this year.
And as far as PUA skills go, try to hang out with Tim. He is living in LA now. I don’t know about other RSD instructors, but I have seen Tim in action and I can only say he is the guy with the most social and seduction skills I have ever seen.
I’m serious. If you just got to hang out with him, he would blow your mind. I’m not joking if I tell you his ablilities outpower ANYONE in the world right now.
Anyway, good list.
Cheers.
it is fair to say that this list is based on whether or not Thundercat met these people.
in other words - a personal interaction with thundercat is a prerequisite to be on the list.
another thing is that Thundercat has very close business ties with Neil Strauss, it is known for a fact that Thundercat made tens of thousands of dollars if not much much more by hooking with Neil business wise.
yet another thing is that thundercat admits that his personal feelings (i don’t mean personal judgement, but simply his personal feelings) affect his choices dramatically (the RSD case).
in other words - a guy has a blog and he puts up a list. this list is no more objective than any guy putting up a blog and writing a list on it.
Thundercat even admits it outright. he’s in fact honest about it.
so be sure to keep that in mind.
In my opinion, (no disrespect) this list
is complete bullshit. Here’s my list:
1. Jeffy
2. Player Supreme
3. David X
4. Macks and Pimps
5. All guru’s preaching NATURAL and DIRECT game
That’s pretty much it. Style and Mystery
are doing NOTHING, and only looking for
profit, mass marketing bullshit and mainstream.
Style is … no comment. Mystery, clown.
Mehow looks gay. The only guy that
are normal on this list are Zan and
maybe Matador. Never heard of that AFCAdam
guy… Swinngcat, come on…
This list you made is ALSO like some
marketing thing, I guess you made a
contract with these guys on the list to
put them on the Top 10, just for more
bussiness.
Real Social Dynamics are THE BEST this
year, not only did they release FANTASTIC
products, but they really have a great blog,
website, super newsletter, those guys are
really doing something cool for this
community. Them, and of course all the
real macks and pimps…
anyway, the list is complete bullshit,
but that’s just my opinion, your gonna
delete this post anyway…
see ya,
Love,
Flavio
I don`t know about Juggler`s skills either
(other than that to try and “grade” the skills of different puas seems like nit-picking to me because they are probly ALL EXTREMELY good with women by any standards.),
but I can tell you that Jugglers ebooks helped me a great deal not just with women, but with life in general (which is more than I can say about Mystery and Swingcats books)
but again, if it comes to actual PU skills, I have no idea how he`d do in the “contest”. And I don`t really care.
I just read some stuff from Adam Lyons, and I find his structure interesting:
1.Comfort
2.Rapport Break
3.Building Attraction
4.Escalation
Is kinda different to what I’m used to.
I saw Adam’s youtube videos and it seemed like just another guy who learned from Mystery, Juggler,TD..etc.
But I have just listened to his podcast and some of his social proof tactics are actually cool.
http://www.attractionexplained.com/introductory_podcast.mp3
here’s a good in-field video of AFCAdamLondon (1 minute street kiss close)
http://www.puaratings.com/#1-min-street-kclose
and there’s also a documentry there about Adam and other seduction community names.
that link again (hopefully the anchor will work this time):
http://www.puaratings.com/#1-min-street-kclose
Where is David DeAngelo??????
I think Mystery should be # 1, and not because of his marketing scam product”The Mind of Mystery”. Overall though, Mystery has had a good year. As much as I love Neil, he should not be # 2. RSD put out the best products in 2007. Tyler has grown and transformed so much since Project Hollywood. Not having any RSD instructors on this list is ridiculous.
My List 2008
#1 Mystery (Because of the Show, and is due the respect.)
#2 Tyler Durden (Transformations and the Jeffy Show, and the their amazing blog.)
#3 Jeffy
#4 Mehow
#5 Swinggcat
#6 Juggler
#7 Hoobie
#8 Tim
#9 Neil
#318,017 Thundercatt
- Yes he started a lot of things, but when you look at it, he completely overcomplicated the whole thing. He knows nothing about simplicity. The people that get into his material will no longer know the concept about being in the moment and flowing.
- lol, peacocking. He looks absolutely ridiculous. He looks like a failed attempt at looking like Criss Angel.
- A new course of ORIGINAL CONTENT? What the fuck is this shit? Wow, man, rehashing shit has certainly come a long way up your ass.
- His TV show was certainly a laugh. Hired actors and he clearly demonstrates well how stupid routine based game is. Did you guys see the fight outside? Yeah, way to advocate lying and inauthenticity, POS. Does the word, ‘natural’ mean anything you or him?
Once again, I hope you continue to stay away from RSD because I hope you never achieve the success they have. Just watch as how Tyler will be emerging as the next Anthony Robbins this year with his Blueprint.
What about Lance Mason…is that goofy kid any good?
Hey man,
Awesome list.
Dude, You should REALLY check out real social dynamics man.
I think you have a TOTALLY wrong view on them.
They aren’t mystery clones at all. It’s VERY new and you just HAVE to see them in action.
I did a workshop with Tim from RSD - Dude, he got some serious game.
I’ve taken 3 bootcamps, I know what I’m talking about.
Feel free to contact me if you want to know more.
Best,
Me//
Dude, saw one other guy vouched for Tim.
Go check his blog out: http://naturaltim.com
Still nothing new under the sun, I see.
I debuted the pivot in 1999. Now it’s this “new idea” and running “AFC” game with it?
That was called FOXHUNTING and before the marketing sharks could co-opt it, well…
What’s next: “McDonald’s ranks the top ten fast-food restaurants?”
What’s with all this anonymous product-love anyway?
I hope all the consumers realize that severely anticompetive behavior and exclusion of inexpensive products from the “community” (that’s CARTEL) pipeline is the main reason people are paying thousands of dollars for what should cost less than $100.00.
To the guy who took three bootcamps: was something wrong with the first two?
Fake show? False advertising. Lawsuit. Lanham Act. Count on it.
HB6? 6 used to be a UG.
Assets aren’t skills: looks, money, all that stuff is AFC.
I haven’t released the last six years or so of my new ideas because I got sick of the competition using it. Without me to steal from, I get to watch them play expert and come up with all this “brilliant” shit.
Never mind that a new tactic I’ve been using has gotten me six offers of dates with women who are all 9s or better, but hey, marketing is everything, right?
There are many ways to make money in America. I think I’ll keep my get-laid secrets this time around.
Thundy,
Awesome list. And yes people, he did mention that it was a prereq to meet and hang with him in order to be ranked. So calm your horses people as he did give the proper disclosure.
But I would have to agree with some of people on the board as far as RSD. They are pretty sick as far as PU skills are involved. And please keep in mind I have run into Mystery and Matador here in L.A. in the middle of the week in Hollywood/West Hollywood. I think RSD’s biggest gun is Jeffy (JLaix) followed by Tim. Both have SICK game and if they were included and if Thundy got to meet them, the would probably be towards the top of this list.
I can see why you’d think rsd tends to be ’sociopathic’ since it involves so much objectification of girls’ responses that you might feel like you lose some kind of ‘real’ connection with them. But it’s really been the best approach to me so far. Tyler and probably most of them should get an adhd diagnosis. Their approach might not really be suited to all guys.
I can see why you’d think rsd tends to be ’sociopathic’ since it involves so much objectification of girls’ responses that you might feel like you lose some kind of ‘real’ connection with them. But it’s really been the best approach to me so far. Tyler and probably most of them should get an adhd diagnosis. Their approach might not really be suited to all guys.
This list is bullshit.
Thundercat has consistently ranked people in previous years who he’s never met. Such as Sinn, Juggler, he hadn’t met Mehow last year.
It shows how ignorant the guy is when he calls RSD a Mystery Method rip-off who are shut off from the community. RSD have been endorsed on blogs by such people as Sinn [TMM master instructor.] Who also hangs out with them on occasion.
Sinn and Captain Jack from TMM were on absolute fire last year, and to ignore them for Neil fucking Strauss….
Jesus, if anything, it’s Thundercat whose shut off from the ‘community.’
My congratulations to all the guys who made your top 10 list this year, Joe…!
- Carlos
I just browsed by your blogg, and I have to say Im glad to see that you admit that fact that you dont RSD “position” in the community.
I was very “anti-RSD” for a while, reading alot of bad reviews etc.. But when I found Tylers blogg and started hanging out on their forum, I started to realize what a huge amount of value they are bringing to the table.
Even though you guys have som “bad blood” between you, I would recommend you to check out their latest writings. It’s impossible to deny what kind of high-level-value they are bringing to the table - imho - way beyond any other “pu gang”.
Cheers.
What is the deal with people talking trash about Thunder’s list???
Apparently Thunder, contrary to what people say here, your opinion and input to the community DOES weigh, otherwise no one would care…
Great Job man and to all those that do not like the top ten list, well go to your blog and creat your own! Simple as that!
cheers
I think this list is a bit biased. If its based on your interactions with these PUA’s then it though be titled “My Favorite Pickup Artists of 2007″ not “The Top 10 Pickup Artists of 2007.” Besides what makes you the all might source to say who is the best and who isn’t. Half the list are PUA’s who have no done much for the community in 2007, and mystery and style should def not be in the top 2, i know alpha naturals that could make mystery and style look like circus clowns on any given night, and im willing to put money on that if anyone sarges in the greater los angeles area.
I think this list is a bit biased. If its based on your interactions with these PUA’s then it though be titled “My Favorite Pickup Artists of 2007″ not “The Top 10 Pickup Artists of 2007.” Besides what makes you the all might source to say who is the best and who isn’t. Half the list are PUA’s who have no done much for the community in 2007, and mystery and style should def not be in the top 2, i know alpha naturals that could make mystery and style look like circus clowns on any given night, and im willing to put money on that if anyone sarges in the greater los angeles area.
..in some point you are wright..but not in the most of it… nobody can make a list of the best pick-up artists in 2007.. no even in their own city… only if you know them personaly…this is stupid… you put some guy from the lss..lol.. have you met him??…i dont think so… or mystery, matador, neil, bad boy??? … this is not real.. you basted it from the bucks and some shoves like mystery shove.. you put out the wrighter of magic bullets??? savoy… and lots of other great Pua-s who had lots of worke in the year of 2007 in prospering and rising of the comunity …
sry fore my english..im from croatia….like Bad Boy…
First - a lot of jock riding here especially for Mystery and RSD. Yes RSD put out a good product but so what? This is about skills meeting women. With that said however a beef shouldn’t come between your choice. Hey man I don’t like Michael Jordan, would I leave him all the best ball players list? Hell no.
Now if anyone should be in the list it’s Sinn, VinDiCarlo and Jlaix. Even though Im not into the routine M3 based game Sinn is the real deal. And truthfully it doesnt matter if you run direct, indirect or natural. Game is game! Get that other crap out of your head that one is better than the other. On another note man has anyone in all these years ever see Swingcat in the field? He has to be the most nonvisible PUA there is.
You are way off.
You left off natural guys who are great.
You have all kids, boys in there 20s here.
How about David Wygant.
I saw him speak at the PUA summit and he blew everyone away.
I also went to one of his bootcamps and unlike all the other guys he did not pawn off the students on weak instructors and he worked one on one with everyone.
Plus he posts videos every day on his site for free for guys to learn,
check him out at http://www.davidwygant.com
Adam is awesome as well..young but very cool .
Neil is Neil….a guy that spits out marketing copy like a genius and is still a walking routine.
Cmon T Cat
Matador is Mystery Lacky.
Grungy is a kid.
You need to realize that their are a lot fo men over the age of 30 who do not want canned routines and lines.
So next time look deeper and grab some of the older more established guys.
There are some people who only know of RSD based on what was written in The Game. While he was quite likely that person that was portrayed in The Game, he is not that guy now. Not at all. Tyler D is one of the most chill genuine individuals I have ever met, and I was quite biased against him based on what was written. Boy, did I have the wrong impression…
gunwitch is the best for daygame. he’s easy to follow and the shit works.
Thundercat wrote “To me, a Top Pick Up Artist is about skill, but it’s also about being able to teach what he knows to others..”
I don’t agree with that teaching part.
It is useful to be able to teach what you know but some people are great PUAs and yet have no clue what they are doing consciously.
I think the top 10 list ought to be about skill, effectiveness an in-field success, not about teaching. That is a different top 10 - the top 10 teachers.
Now there’s an idea.
SteviePUA
Johnny Soporno is a PUA?
LOL I don’t think he’d aggree with that. There’s much more to Soporno then picking up girls.
No-one mentioned here or in any of the replies comes close to Soporno. All of his material is available free from http://www.worthyplayboys.com .
Nice to see AFC Adam is getting a nod. Though I have no idea why Thundercat thinks he is doing anything “new”. People have been getting laid via their social circle since the beginning of time!
Ryan
Hey Guys,
How about Stephane Hemon from ideaGasms.net
He has a circle of 3 bisexual girlfriend’s currently and in 2007 released the;
‘BGTP: Bisexual Girlfriend Training Program’
For 2008 he is launching ‘Intro to ideaGasms’ and ‘The Girlfriend Whisperer’.
And why isn’t David X featured here more prominently, for pure PUA skills he is surely one of the best.
Also props to Charisma Arts!
Peace,
Ash
-Looks like Mehow bought Swinggcat’s mailing list
-Ranking PUAs has more to do with hero worship than anything else
-Despite RSD head brainwasher, Tyler, telling everyone not to care what anyone thinks, he still sends his minions here to spam and refute any negative post
Thunderfat obviously wanted to name Neil “Fagin” Strauss as no. 1, but realised he would be mocked, so instead named the guy most associated with his greedy hero.
This will open your eyes about what the TRUE intentions of Thundercat(=Matt Kadish)and his friends are:
http://www.masscontrolsite.com/mafia.php
Enjoy!
Where’s RSD?
Oh yeah, since they won’t associate with a bullshit Marketer who claims to be a PUA, they don’t get on the list.
It should be TOP PUA’s who let me leech off their success.
This is Alex. He is cool. He is a natural. He’s the Party. And he’s better than all the PUA you listed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1s1ceO8h6s
Glad Soporno made the list. His stuff is great. Pity you couldn’t add RSD, Juggler, Vin dicarlo cause you didn’t meet them.
Mystery has been in the game for how long? 7 years or some shit? And he still doesn’t look like a natural in field… what’s up with that?
Congrats to all the dudes who made the lsit.
Glad Soporno made the list. His stuff is great. Pity you couldn’t add RSD, Juggler, Vin dicarlo cause you didn’t meet them.
Mystery has been in the game for how long? 7 years or some shit? And he still doesn’t look like a natural in field… what’s up with that?
Congrats to all the dudes who made the lsit.
What about Lance Mason…and his goofy banter…does anyone think he can compete?
“I don’t take anything away from Neil (except maybe his strange business partnership with Ross Jeffries)”
Eat your heart out, Thunderfatt.
What Stylelife is launching with me, January 26, will rock this community to its very foundations.
HA HA HA HA HA HA
http://www.stylelife.com
Ah, MINE’99,
You couldn’t cut it on your own, so you decide to leech off Neil like the parasite you are. Typical.
I saw you at Neil’s book signing. You were still acting gay to meet women without being outright rejected. Is that what you’re “groundbreaking” course is gonna be teaching? The lispy pippy longstocking opener?
Well - at least it’s better than Manny the Martian - yet another brilliant speed seduction creation from the mind of MINE’99.
Thundercat
P.S. Looking forward to the inevitable lawsuit between you and Stylelife when you get around to screwing them over like you seem to do with every business partner you ever have.
Oh come on, the only people that these commercial products are “earth-shattering” for are the people who SELL them.
Is Ross now saying he really didn’t have “the answer” in 1989, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2004, etc.? Or that things have changed so much in ten years?
News flash: there’s a limited number of super-hot women on the planet. The weaknesses of the matrix ten years ago don’t exist now as they did then. It’s more difficult to game because hotties are wiser to it, and because more men do it. If someone published the secret to winning PowerBall and there were 3,200 winning tickets, each wouldn’t be worth $350 million.
Whether it’s 300 AFCs or 300 PUAx chasing a chick, it’s still a game of supply and demand, and managing to find a “profitable” method of “investing.” Once you do that, however, you make the market more efficient as you remove one hottie from it, and another PUA removes another, etc.
You can’t teach every competitor how to win a game of musical chairs. The math just isn’t there.
“And with that show, Mystery has crafted a new and exciting lifestyle based around the celebrity that it garnered. It’s almost as if he’s transcended being a pick-up artist and moved into celebrity territory.”
Yeah, right: actors as contestants, paid targets in the clubs, used as the basis for celebrity, which is used as the basis for attracting women, which somehow “proves” that he had game all along.
Commercial game, not seduction game.
This is like that bad Bugs Bunny cartoon where Bugs and Daffy alternate on the stage, doing exactly the same thing, with Bugs getting cheered and Daffy getting silence.
At what point does the fraud of the VH-1 show become relevant? Why exactly are people told to ignore a blatant lie, one that excused him from an actual test of his method, and then allow him to count groupies as conquests?
Could it be the money he tosses around to his affiliates?
This list contains no PUAs who aren’t commercial. Complete nonsense.
Thundercat said: ”You couldn’t cut it on your own, so you decide to leech off Neil like the parasite you are. Typical.”
Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black?
Ray… that’s the most assbackwards thing I’ve ever heard.
More PUA’s just means more cool guys to hang out with. It’s not like just because a girl has an SNL with one PUA she can’t have an SNL with another… it’s not like it’s one per person.
Additionally, notice the most advanced relationship guru’s are Johnny Soporno and Zan… both guys who advocate NOT going exclusive.
Stop with the scarcity bullshit.
I made the mistake of reading the post and all the comments.
Waste of time.
I want my 20mins back.
Ah, Thundy, the 2 hour Stylelife teleseminar announcing my Nail Your Inner Game course for SLA is tomorrow.
If you want in on the call, send an email to:
NYIG@stylelife.com
Kisses,
RJ
Thundercat, if you don’t know who Tim is check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c9gyKNo20g
I’m not an RSD fan, and I don’t give a shit whether you like them or not or put them in your list or not.
But look at him, look at the energy he projects.
Meet up with him, he is in LA.
It will be a refreshing experience for you.
I honestly think this guy can beat Mystery in-field.
I LIKE SALAD!
Oh my god. The stupidity of some posters here just hurts! YOu all scream for objectivity and that he has a bias an so so… while knowing a shit about what a bias is! Every human and every statement MUST have a HUGE BIAS, based on the simplest physics. Look at all the opticall illusions. The prove the bias in our eyes. There is bias in all our senses and actions. If you admit that, you can use all information, no matter how “biased” (=difference in brain wiring). So it is in fact making this list *better*, that thundercat tells us his feelings aboud rsd. It’s pretty easy to get a top-10-list that contains your own preferences. Just multiplicate the results of thundercat’s output with the difference between his and your weighting/importance of aspects, and voila! An example for me: - As far as i know, the mistery method is based on tricks and acting in a pretty unnatural way. (I heard DeAngelo is even worse). I read his book, and i second that. - Thundercat tells me that many guys just imitate the old mistery method. I believe him, based on my experience with such things (the “90% imitators”-theory). So we can group them. - My preference is in getting long-term-relationships by being myself and unsing the natural method humans use since humans exist (= based on natural selection theory) - Some posters say, that Jeffy (et al.) teaches a very natural style. Additionally i heard “the dating wizard” (michael w.) tries to do the same thing. - I can’t thrust anyone based on an internet post… But i can use the hints to check out the specific PUAs. - So because i did not like mistery’s “faking”, i’ll read/watch the jeffy/rsd-stuff. - Then i’ll think about my final question (that i ask dou too): If this game is based on natural selection… and we’re the ones with the bad genetics / character values… Then is “faking” or changing our innermost character the only way to be successful? In that case mistery would be the right way. But we will see when we have seen both (or yet better: even more) sides. won’t we?
Style and Mystery are Thundercat’s associates !!!
What did you REALLY expected to see in this list
Where is Juggler?
And RSD is all but disconnected from the community, they are nothing like they used to be (bad rip-offs of Mystery). I would say they have outgrown MM; they focus on really being your best self. Style said it, but didn’t do it.
Thundy, get your panties unbunched and jump over here:
http://www.stylelife.com/nailit/enroll.php
RJ
I am blown the fuck away by this thread.
I mean, seriously, it’s crazy.
TD says it best… the self is always coming through.
How old are you two? You’re what… 30, Thundercat?
And you’re what, Ross - 45? 49?
And you’re still trying to win the argument?
To level personal attacks against each other on a blog?
You are grown men!
I mean, for the love of God!
Grown men, sniping and bitching, and publicizing your negativity behind aliases!
I am just blown away.
@Ross Jeffries: Oh come on you little creep! Every time i read about you commenting on others, it’s only insulting, whining, or some other poor stuff. Seriously. Get a good psychologist (hint: one that helps you work these deep emotions, and does not use drugs or talking to numb them away) to finally solve your long-standing problems that you’re covering with NLP-playing and attention-enforcing (e.g. guruing). Then you will be free to see that NLP ihas nothing to do with how the game is meant to work naturally, but is just creepy manipulation-stuff for wierd (e.g. neurotic) poeple. EvilMachine P.S.: English is not my first language. But you know how i meant it.
Allright. I went over the whole shit.
Basically there are 3 main schools of thought.
a) The old NLP-manipulation: Creeps the hell outta me. How can anyone seriousely think this is “the right thing”(tm)?
b) The Mystery Method: AKA Fake it till you make it. Too much canned stuff for me. Without it you’ll be still just boring.
c) The natural way: Trying to become a “natural”. Nice and good. But in the beginngng: Very frustrating hard.
So maybe we should choose a top-10-list per school of thought.
I personally think that the best approach is getting a “natural”, but to speed you up a bit with “canned mystery”(tm) (and other stuff like “cocky & funny”).
So simply threat this list as a top-10-list for school b (mystery method) (thundercat’s bias), and it becomes useful for all poeple.
One should mention that RSD (mostly Jeffy, and even more theupcoming blueprint stuff) goes straight in the natural directon. Nice!
You’re right. I should chill out and stop being so spiky. I realize that my negativity is the reason I’ve been sidelined by thousands of guys. I guess I’ve been using NLP as a crutch this entire time because I don’t feel like I deserve love. Not really. I think I’ll look at RSD now, because they seem to be doing some really interesting stuff… and I hear that the Blueprint will enable me to leave behind all the creepy button-pushing stuff I’ve been doing and just radiate authenticity at women… achieving rapid seductions with stunning girls that make my best ‘October man’ sequence look like the slurred rantings of a village idiot.
Thank you for showing me the way, guys. I can change.
The preceding message was brought to you by a 17 year old teenager ….courtesy of the kind loving people at Real Sociopath Dynamics
The preceding message was brought to you by a 17 year old teenager ….courtesy of the kind loving people at Real Sociopath Dynamics
The preceding message was brought to you by a 17 year old teenager ….courtesy of the kind loving people at Real Sociopath Dynamics
No, really. I admit it. I was wrong.
OK guys, even though I’ve been studying the community very closely for some time now, this is the 1st time I feel its time to make a comment simply because I’m surprised that we as guys, (thinking much more logical than woman) can get as emotional as women can get after the winners of beauty contest has been anounced… a bit embarassing (just like my spelling, but then english not my 1st language either):
1) I believe everyone contributing to this community should get praise for ANY contribution that adds value to the community.
2) Yes, there are different schools of thought, but they ALL work, and work together. Personally Ross’ NLP methods got me into studying NLP which helped me to develop my Deep Inner Game (DIG) which I BADLY needed before learning any techniques. WHY, because sorting out my DIG made me natural, rather than creepy … what was concious efforts to start with became natural habits. I believe guys applying the techniques without their inner game sorted come accross creepy) Mystery’s methods (and the many other ones out) there applied by guys without his natural ability to use them ARE CREEPY, I’ve seen them! Who else have noticed that?
So NLP methods, mystery’s method, being natural… they all work! Its just that we are biased towards the ones we learned most from ourselves (the natural guys among us don’t need my Inner Game transformation,but I value that more than most other contributions) or where we focussed our efforts on.
So in summary, I salute all those that contribute, lets be inspiring to each oher and leave any bad emotions between us to the AFC’s still sorting out their inner game.
BIGDIG
LET THEM FIGHT!
It makes for great comedy :p
I was laughing my ass off right now just skimming through the posts. Thanks Ross and Thundercat for making my day
Prediction: Frank B Kermit on this list next year.
Also, I agree completely with Johnny Soporno being on the list, I’m just surprised he isn’t ranked higher.
Hahaha what on earth makes you an authority to judge. There is no one best company, but there are plenty of shitty ones. At least I can say RSD puts out quality products which aren’t $7000, but have as much (if not more than that) value packed into them.
This list is really quite arbitrary. The only people who would take this list seriously, are the people who don’t know any better - People with ultimately weak realities, unable to form their own opinions.
Thundercat’s list is just set to who he personally likes, and is no way a reflection of what reality actually is. RSD does infact teach good, and actually Better material than Mystery Method. Although Mystery was the original, that does not mean someone cannot rip off his material and teach it better. Because for the student, what is more productive? Obviously the better teacher. Besides, I was never a huge fan of RSD or Mystery Method, but of people’s own personal identity and strong reality. Now that RSD is teaching inner-game, I support them way more.
As for Style being 3 time winning PUA, give me a break. No doubt that Style is a cool guy. But just because Thundercat sas he is the best, doesn’t mean shit all. I can’t believe he mentioned how he was crowned the top PUA in his book and in media interviews, that guy is funny! He forgot to mention oh, it’s because some fat guy who calls him thundercat, which everyone hates, said so.
What a joke.
RSD Is pickup 2.0 boyz.
They set apart from you guys because they are simply on a higher level. Who’s the best it’s not relevant. Fuck that ego shit.
I dont know about the old times. But the last years I’ve checked everything out and RSD is in another dimension if we compare it to conventional commmunity button pushers.
Thundercatt I dont know why are you mad with this guys but seriously they are not the ones who you dont want to get involved with.