Still today, my biggest intellectual surprise while learning seduction stuff, is the pervading counter-intuitivity of the knowledge and technology of seduction matters. Paradoxes, sort of.

Ex: be gushing from the heart, the chick rejects you for being weak, needy, for your sheer incapacity to create sexual tension basically. counter intuitive stuff.

Supposing that the mere idea of a big Unity and cooperation and super-Friendship between camps be possible, I ask: if the seduction gurus were to syndicate, would it be better?

Isn’t competition at the core of progress, at least as we conceive it in the occidental world?

I’m convinced Ross Jeffries as well as his challengers will come up with improved technology, as a result of the constant “reality check” created by the competition. They will refine their techniques, their business, their prices, their customer care, their product supports and designing. Ross might even come up with workshops, as he once suggested…

Of course, competition implies some risks like the pollution of our mind by the unfair relabelling, repackaging or masquerading of existent concepts, systems or techniques into “new” products / “new” methods. Thus a loss of efficiency, also reinforced by the multiplicity of products and eventual confusion in the “student’s” mind.

the other risk is that gurus could waste some of their time, talent and energy in the by-products of competition (flaming, justifying themselves, observing the “enemy’s moves”.) instead of innovating, working on their business etc. Although we can’t blame such or such guru for leaping to the defence of their intellectual honour, authorship, ego.

I think those are minor risks as the community is evolving into a mature entity.

To come back to the subject of this thread, I agree with shinji’s point that RJ deals with the substance of Thundercat’s post.

Ross Jeffries wrote: “Are you deluded or what?”

He simply points out Thundercat’s limiting frame of mind or perspective. Ross doesn’t do it in an utterly elegant manner, but he is dead on accurate nontheless! It also reminds me of RJ’s point about the reforming of guys’ inner game, or attitude. Tackling limiting perspectives is a huge part of the reforming of one’s capacity to be successful on a consistant basis. You can’t wake up a deeply asleep guy wispering lullabies, it takes a hammer and a frying pan bang to do it!
It’s for sleeping Thundy’s sake! And you get further proof of that reading that Ross is “generously” offering reforming help to Thundy

cf RJ:
“I’ve even offered to bury the hatchet and work with him, FREE, on his inner game, but he refuses out of fear that I am trying to make him “beta”. Whereas, the reality is, it’s in my own best interests to help him; imagine the value of a testimonial from one of my most vicious critics when he says, “Ross fixed my inner game. Totally”.

Are you guys fucking blind to reality or totally dumb or totally biased by your standing in Thundy’s camp???

Beyond the outrageous FORMULATION of Ross Jeffries’ comments, there’s SUBSTANCE indeed.

Not a single person as argued with THAT! i take it as proof that you posting bullies, are not going to the full extent of the criticism…

As PUAs / apprentice PUAs you should know that surface meaning is sometimes the OPPOSITE of deep, real meaning.

Counter-intuitive stuff, AGAIN OH MY BROTHERS!

Hey, by the way, I gotta admit I go for Ross’s view here… I’m a bit biased too…Sorry… I always lean a bit towards INTELLIGENCE, REASON and PROOF!

As a student of both RJ’s previously (some guys may rememember me I told a success story at the London 2001 seminar), and currently learning and evolving my game using skillsets from people like mystery, Swingcat, RSD, DYD etc. Can I please ask a respectful CUT THE BULLSHIT to EVERYONE in this community?!!

In my personal experience there are aspects of both “camps” games that are useful and there are aspects that are less than useful – everything depends on CONTEXT and a healthy dose of commmon sense.

Would it not be more useful to EVERYONE involved if people like RJ were to work synergistically with people like Mystery and TD?
(Personally I’d like to hear how Ross does his inner game work and how he overcomes stumbling blocks for people… and I’d like to hear how Mystery uses SS during isolation… also I remember Swingcat saying something about using hypnosis to make out with girls within 10 minutes… am I the only person who wants to know how he does this???)

Would ALL our skills not be amplified if everything were weighed on its on merit (i.e. exactly how does this work in field) rather than on its source?

I’m not saying who’s to blame and who isn’t and who’s the biggest crybaby… can we all agree to meet on a forum and discuss things in a peer review fashion… without all the flame wars (overt or otherwise) occupying bandwith that could be used more productively?

Enigma

You took the idea of frames DIRECTLY from the work of BANDLER AND GRINDER. What would you have done if it weren’t for using concepts like embedded commands, anchoring, sub-modalities, and …

You imitated. It wasn’t your original idea. You applied it to seduction and claimed yourself as originator.

You took most of your so called concepts DIRECTLY from the book “TRANCE-FORMATIONS”. Patterns like stacked realities …all come form there.

You also took many ideas from their other books, and from other NLP people.

The stuff that Swingcat talks about in his book is not a result of your work. Who said you originated FRAMES? Or prizing, or open-loops, or revealing & concealing, or cold-reading, or qualifying, or…

JUST BECAUSE BANDLER & GRINDER WERE SO BUSY DOING OTHER STUFF AND BECAUSE YOUR MARKET DIDN’T OVERLAP THEIR MARKET DOESN’T MEAN YOU DIDN’T STEAL ALMOST ALL OF YOUR SO CALLED ORIGINAL CONCEPTS FROM THEM.

Mark Cunningham taught you a great deal, e.g. symbol fractionation and now you claim it as yours.

Now you have turned to yoga. I wonder why it didn’t cross your intelligent mind before, to tap into that, and try to commercialize yoga as a seduction tool. Why didn’t you advocate yoga in DC2000?

In a tape you said something in the lines of “if your car in broken down in highway, do you want someone who’ll tell you that the universe is ultimately perfect or you want someone who can get the fucking car running?”

Now in the above metaphor, your SS system DOESN’T get the fucking car running. At least not all on its own.

No wonder your CURRENT top student Vince is clinical hypnotherapist. Talk about applicability of your system by ANYONE, as it is so clearly shown on your site. LOL

Wow. Thanks for acknowledging the creative source from which all the imitators have arisen. . 80% of Swingcat’s key concepts he lifted directly from stuff in my material, most notably his stuff about intent and frames.

David D is so pale an imitation, he’s no longer worth mentioning.

Rick H. was never much a part of it, but I still like Rick. He’s a great guy. Who could not like Rick?

By the way..NONE of the guys you mentioned have a clue or a concept for helping someone’s inner game. NONE.

” Too bad that RJ seems to have lost all of his greatest social proof for SS ”

Social proof? I have the testimonials and skills of my students. Have you met Vince K. yet?

-” his best students who have since found better ways and better systems – like RSD, Mystery Method, Swinggcats method, and DYD.”

Rubbish. Tyler and Owen are not and never have been my student. Nor has Mystery(who uses SS by the way once women are isolated, he’s said so himself). Swingcat is so imitative, it’s ridiculous. And DYD..don’t make me laugh. What’s original isn’t good and what’s good isn’t original.

“Wake up and smell the coffee Shinji -”

So where specifically in my analysis of Thundy’s fuck up do you find disagreement?

http://www.seduction.com
They imitate
I originate